The American Masculinity Podcast is hosted by Timothy Wienecke — licensed psychotherapist, Air Force veteran, and award-winning men's advocate. Real conversations about masculinity, mental health, trauma, fatherhood, leadership, and growth. Each episode offers expert insight and practical tools to help men show up differently — as partners, fathers, friends, and leaders. No yelling. No clichés. Just grounded, thoughtful masculinity for a changing world.
Episode Summary
In Part 2 of our grit series, Kevin Palmieri (co-host of the Next Level University podcast) brings a vital counterbalance to Alan Lazaros' intensity in Part 1. Where Alan emphasized pushing through pain, Kevin asks: What does it take to sustain discipline for the long haul?
This conversation explores the tension between grit and burnout, why men hesitate to seek help, the role of fathers in shaping resilience, and how community can make discipline possible. If you've ever wondered whether you're pushing too hard - or not hard enough - this episode will help you find that middle ground.
Chapters
00:00 - Opening thoughts: Why grit without balance fails
05:10 - Kevin on the limits of "out-suffering"
12:45 - Burnout and losing the joy in the work
18:30 - Why men avoid therapy (and how stigma plays a role)
26:15 - The power of presence: Fathers vs. influencers
33:40 - Community and accountability in discipline
42:20 - Sustainable grit: Blending self-empathy with discipline
49:50 - Reflection and wrap-up
About the Guest - Kevin Palmieri
Kevin Palmieri is the Co-Founder, CFO, and Co-Host of Next Level University - a globally recognized self-improvement podcast. Along with his co-host Alan Lazaros, Kevin has helped build the show into a Top-100 podcast with over 2,100 episodes, reaching listeners in 150+ countries and surpassing 1 million plays worldwide.
His story is one of transformation. In his mid-20s, despite achieving the outward symbols of success - a high-paying job, a sports car, and peak physical fitness - Kevin felt profoundly unfulfilled. That moment of reckoning became the catalyst for his pursuit of holistic growth and sustainable discipline, which he now shares with audiences around the world.
Today, Kevin mentors high performers not just to achieve more, but to achieve sustainably - balancing grit with recovery, discipline with self-awareness, and growth with community support. Through his coaching, programs, and podcasting, he emphasizes that success without fulfillment is never enough.
Learn more & connect with Kevin:
- 🌍 Next Level University Podcast: https://www.nextleveluniverse.com/next-level-university-podcast
- 🎙️ Podcast Growth University: https://www.nextleveluniverse.com/podcast-growth-university
- 📸 Instagram - @neverquitkid: https://www.instagram.com/neverquitkid
- 🔗 LinkedIn Profile: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kevin-palmieri-5b7736160
Fact-Check: Grit, Burnout, and Discipline
Burnout Is More Than Losing Joy
Kevin described burnout as "when you lose the joy, when the work doesn't give you energy anymore."
Research largely supports this picture - though the World Health Organization defines burnout more precisely as a workplace phenomenon marked by exhaustion, detachment, and reduced performance. It isn't classified as a medical condition, but rather a result of unmanaged chronic stress (WHO, 2019).
📖 Reference: Maslach & Leiter (2016) note that burnout erodes motivation and meaning, not just joy, making Kevin's description accurate but incomplete.
Men and Mental Health Treatment
Kevin noted that "most guys don't even think about going to therapy," pointing to the gender gap in help-seeking.
The data backs this up. Among adults with depression in the U.S., just 33% of men received counseling compared to 43% of women (CDC, 2023). Stigma, cultural expectations, and lack of male-friendly spaces all play a role.
📖 Reference: Vogel et al. (2014) found that men's reluctance to seek therapy often stems from traditional masculine norms - reinforcing Kevin's observation.
Why Father Presence Matters
Kevin argued that even imperfect fathering is better than kids only having parasocial figures online.
The research is consistent: children without fathers at home face higher risks of depression, poorer educational outcomes, and social difficulties. Presence alone isn't everything - quality of involvement matters - but being there does reduce risks.
- Harper & McLanahan, 2020
- Booth et al., 2015
- Størksen et al., 2023
Sustainable Discipline
Kevin warned that "you can't just out-suffer forever - discipline has to be sustainable or you'll break."
Psychologists agree: grit and willpower matter, but they are most effective when paired with recovery and self-care. The American Psychological Association's Stress in America report (2023) highlights how unmanaged stress erodes health and undermines long-term discipline (APA, 2023).
📖 Reference: Duckworth & Gross (2014) found that grit must be integrated with self-control and healthy habits to be effective over time.
Reflection Question
At the beginning of the episode, we asked: If grit is key to growth, what does it mean to sustain it?Take a moment now and share in the comments:
- Where do you rely on pure discipline?
- Where could more self-empathy or community support help you sustain the path forward?
References (APA Style)
- American Psychological Association. (2023). Stress in America 2023: A nation recovering from collective trauma. https://www.apa.org/news/press/releases/stress/2023/
- Booth, A., Scott, M. E., & King, V. (2015). Father residence and adolescent outcomes. Journal of Youth and Adolescence, 44(3), 713-730. https://doi.org/10.1007/s10964-014-0139-0
- Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. (2023). Counseling and therapy among adults with depression: United States, 2020-2021. NCHS Data Brief, No. 482. https://www.cdc.gov/nchs/products/databriefs/db482.htm
- Duckworth, A. L., & Gross, J. J. (2014). Self-control and grit: Related but separable determinants of success. Current Directions in Psychological Science, 23(5), 319-325. https://doi.org/10.1177/0963721414541462
- Harper, C., & McLanahan, S. (2020). Father absence and child well-being: A critical review. Annual Review of Sociology, 46, 383-407. https://doi.org/10.1146/annurev-soc-121919-054802
- Maslach, C., & Leiter, M. P. (2016). Understanding burnout: New models. World Psychiatry, 15(2), 103-111. https://doi.org/10.1002/wps.20311
- Størksen, I., Ellingsen, I. T., & Ulvik, O. S. (2023). Father involvement and child outcomes: A systematic review. Child: Care, Health and Development, 49(2), 243-258. https://doi.org/10.1111/cch.13112
- Vogel, D. L., Wester, S. R., Hammer, J. H., & Downing-Matibag, T. M. (2014). Referring men to seek help: The influence of gender role conflict and stigma. Psychology of Men & Masculinity, 15(1), 60-71. https://doi.org/10.1037/a0031761
- World Health Organization. (2019). Burn-out an "occupational phenomenon": International Classification of Diseases. https://www.who.int/news/item/28-05-2019-burn-out-an-occupational-phenomenon-in-the-international-classification-of-diseases